Zen Internet Support Forum

There is nothing in law which states that losing something is criminal.  Negligent - yes, but not criminal.  The criminals are those who steal lost data and use it for wrongful purposes.

Lance:

There is nothing in law which states that losing something is criminal.  Negligent - yes, but not criminal.  The criminals are those who steal lost data and use it for wrongful purposes.

You are probably right but in my opinion it should be a criminal offence to be that negligent. 

I dare say you are right CurlyWhirly.  We do have a system of government which does not always do what we would like but we do have an occasional opportunity to change it.  That is what democracy is all about.  The unfortunate thing seems to be that both sides are as bad in this respect.

 Better if we leave it to the computer experts to put in their two-pennyworth.

Hi,

Personally, its my opinion that governments shouldn't be trusted with our personal data.

No.1 This specific new labor government seems especially accident prone and extremely incompetent with citizens personal data.

No.2 YES! loss of citizens data by a government department should be a criminal offense, if it was made so then government officers (employees) would hopefully take more care with any data they did have (handle).

No.3 Call me paranoid perhaps? but I don't like this governments control freakery and insistence on wanting so much personal data off each of us. Yes! I totally distrust their agendas as its not open nor honest by this government. Why? do they want MORE ands more data if not to control us??

**Most citizens in the UK are already on at least X5 major databases already (OK! not all of them are government owned or run)  a) NHS medical number b) bank account c) DVLA d) TV licensing e) inland revenue & taxation i.e. your tax code. f) Passport or eventually ID card at this rate?!! and these are just the one's I can think of off the top of my brain right now.

** I have NOTHING to personally hide, I have zero criminal history etc,etc BUT I still don't like this governments obvious desire to remove our civil liberties and to poke their noses into the personal private lives of ordinary people, I feel extremely uncomfortable with the way new labor has behaved since 9/11 took place.

Ivan 

cyteck:

Hi,

Personally, its my opinion that governments shouldn't be trusted with our personal data.

No.1 This specific new labor government seems especially accident prone and extremely incompetent with citizens personal data.

No.2 YES! loss of citizens data by a government department should be a criminal offense, if it was made so then government officers (employees) would hopefully take more care with any data they did have (handle).

No.3 Call me paranoid perhaps? but I don't like this governments control freakery and insistence on wanting so much personal data off each of us. Yes! I totally distrust their agendas as its not open nor honest by this government. Why? do they want MORE ands more data if not to control us??

**Most citizens in the UK are already on at least X5 major databases already (OK! not all of them are government owned or run)  a) NHS medical number b) bank account c) DVLA d) TV licensing e) inland revenue & taxation i.e. your tax code. f) Passport or eventually ID card at this rate?!! and these are just the one's I can think of off the top of my brain right now.

** I have NOTHING to personally hide, I have zero criminal history etc,etc BUT I still don't like this governments obvious desire to remove our civil liberties and to poke their noses into the personal private lives of ordinary people, I feel extremely uncomfortable with the way new labor has behaved since 9/11 took place.

I agree with all your comments.

Point 2 - That's why I was hinting that being negligent with our data should be a criminal offence as otherwise they will continue to be careless.

If there was the threat of a prosecution then they would undoubtedly be more careful. 

p.s. another reason why I'm sceptical of this government is that despite there being 2 recent police investigations, no politician has ever been charged which makes me deeply suspicious. 

Hi CurlyWhirly,

YES! Agree with you too, I see the problem as being deeper and wider. In the sense that nobody in government or within the Home Office department/s are prepared to take responsability when data goes AWOL.  Its a case of lots of  hand wringing and lots of nice sounding words in the house of commons but nobody actually says sorry! yes! we screwed up and we will do something about this, and precisely how long its going to take to fix it.

**If such incompetence took place within a private company or corporation the person concerned would be sacked on the spot no question about it.

**But politicians seem to be able to worm their way out of such issues. This is another reason I don't like or trust politicians, they don't provide a very good example to the rest of our society (especially if they all have their noses in the troff !! to a greater or lesser degree). 

Ivan 

Lance:

Surely, it is only criminals who like to hide their identity.  Those who have nothing to hide have nothing to fear except from those who like to lay their blame at other people's door.

If that attitude is taken to its conclusion I would take it that you would have no problem with a camera in every room of your house monitored by the government. After all, if you've nothing to hide you have nothing to fear.

 A government should be afraid of the people, not the other way round.
 

The answer that easily come to mind Andyrew is this.  It is a quotation that comes from somebody far better than I and is this : -

 "If we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."

 Free pardons for everybody but where's the catch? 

Hello Andyrew,

We all think we can do without God, don't we?  Even born again Christians would confess to that if they were being honest.  True liberty is peace with God but I don't expect you to go along with that because you are not a believer are you? (a guess).

Us Christians do not have a home in this world, but look for something better;  a city not made with hands but of gold where there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away with perfect peace and harmony.  It will never happen here because we are sinners in need of repentance and forgiveness.  Pie in the sky is what scoffers like to call it and of course it is but meanwhile we have no need to be looking over our shoulders because God is our refuge and strength; a very present help in time of trouble.

 God bless 

My Utopia is a bullexcrement free world... (which includes silly word-checkers not removing *** a perfectly acceptable phrase!!!).

Now wouldn't that be something?

Lance, you are correct, I am an Atheist. I believe the biggest problem in the world today is religion and its 'believers'. Look around the world, religious 'believers' slaughtering each other by the thousands every day. Millions worldwide being forced into poverty and disease because they are denied contraception by a hypocritical man in white who lives in luxury in Rome. Millions more forced to live as second class citizens based purely on their gender because if they didn't they'd be executed under sharia law. Others in Palestine killing each other with reprisal after reprisal and both sides never learning that killing only causes more killing.

You're right, I DON'T believe. I stopped believing in fairy tales when I was a child. 

Andyrew:

Lance, you are correct, I am an Atheist. I believe the biggest problem in the world today is religion and its 'believers'. Look around the world, religious 'believers' slaughtering each other by the thousands every day. Millions worldwide being forced into poverty and disease because they are denied contraception by a hypocritical man in white who lives in luxury in Rome. Millions more forced to live as second class citizens based purely on their gender because if they didn't they'd be executed under sharia law. Others in Palestine killing each other with reprisal after reprisal and both sides never learning that killing only causes more killing.

You're right, I DON'T believe. I stopped believing in fairy tales when I was a child. 

Thank you for that Andyrew.  What you say of course is true in part.  We do go around "slaughtering one another."  It even happens on this forum although the moderators do their best to keep order in this troublesome world.  What I am trying to put over to you is that there is something better out there for those who want it.  There is 'right' as well as 'wrong'.  We do not have to fight like brute beasts, but even the scriptures say "Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?"  G.F.Handel even put it to one of his tunes. 

I have been a Christian for 31 years and I would not wish to go back to my old way of living despite the "slaughtering;"  that is man's doing, not God's.  We like to do our own selfish way and when it goes wrong we like to blame it on dear old God who patiently puts up with it all—but not forever.  One day there is a reckoning to come when we will have to stand before him and give an account of ourselves.  In that day it will be us that has to account for our lives and not the guy over the wall.  In that day believers are going to live "happily ever after." 

 God bless