Zen Internet Support Forum

Ah, ok my avatar icon has been too badly corrupted by going to jpeg to decode properly - I'll have to have a bit of a play there. A clean version of it is here :

 http://www.jander.me.uk/jander.png

 

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Jerry Nicholls
Principal Systems Engineer
perl -e '$_=q(print "perl -e \x27\$_=q($_);eval\x27\n");eval'

Jerry Nicholls:

Ken Odlum:

The government could ban all ISP's from passing anything that is encrypted. Unless of coarse the message or file contained a back door known to them.

Which would of course drive criminals to using two layer encryption whereby the backdoor reveals a harmless recipe for chocolate brownies but the real decryption key give something different. Or. revert to stenography - simple typos in the text actually encode some other message. Here's a challenge - decode my avatar icon - that's simple stenography not just the collection of randomly coloured squares it seems ...

 Would a real criminal entrust and encriminating file encryted or not to the internet? Shurely the safest way even now to send information or what ever is still the postal services both private and public.

I feel that the main problem this and every government has is not being able to keep an eye on what we are all doing and the criminal is just the excuse. 

 

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Ken

Zen Active 8000

Middle age is when your classmates are so grey, bald and wrinkled that they don't recognize you.
-Bennet Cerf

So, what are you trying to say ken? that the government has some sort of hidden agenda??

**I definitely feel the government does have a hidden agenda, the so called Labor party since Tony Blair has had a dreaful authoritian steak to it, i.e. all this information gathering & information control, invation of civil liberaties or should that be the errosion of civil liberties. 

**In this same theme, did you hear what the Information commissioner said today about the government wanting to create yet another national database which would record ALL our telephone conversations & internet sites vistied. He was very very concerned and that it was a step to far.

**By the way the US governement already has this listening spying system called Eshalon which is reported to listen to ALL global telephone calls & email etc traffic. I'm not sure how true or extensive this really is. But Eshalon does exist though.

**My biggest concern is ID cards frankly.

Ivan.

All British governments have had hidden agenders Ivan but NEW Labour has much less skill at hiding it

As a none passport holder I would find ID cards handy as my wife and I find it very difficult to even open a new bank account etc for lack of ID with a picture on it. Also although I do not agree with all the big brother mentality that now goes on, with things like illegal imigration and international crime, I have to admit that some of it is becoming very necessary.

Notice the emphasis on NEW Labour as I now see this party as Tories that are to deceitful to admit what they they really are.

We stray off topic I think! Sorry.

 

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Ken

Zen Active 8000

Middle age is when your classmates are so grey, bald and wrinkled that they don't recognize you.
-Bennet Cerf

Ken Odlum:

Notice the emphasis on NEW Labour as I now see this party as Tories that are to deceitful to admit what they they really are.

We stray off topic I think! Sorry.

Ha Ha, I used to be a Labour party member but resigned 6 years or more ago, when they asked why I said I did not want to be part of old tory.

I guess I was way before my time but now more and more people feel the same as I do.

Hi Ken (and BritBat),

YES! well I couldnt have put it better myself Ken, about NEW labor. Sadly, poor John Smith would be turning in his grave if he could see what Tony Blair et al have done to the Labor Party. YES!! YES!! **All British governments have had hidden agenders Ivan but NEW Labour has much less skill at hiding it. (well put).

NOTE:- My memory is pretty good & I clearly recall Charles Clerk the then home secretary stated on the BBC national news approximately 2 days after 9/11 that ID cards would not nor could NOT protect us from such acts of terrorism. Why? because every single Al Quida terrorist had a passport or some kind of valid ID, thats how they got onto the aircraft in the first place to committ such horrible events.

**New Labor has betrayed itself & its origins, they are Tories in wolfs clothing. 

**As my mum likes to say Tony Blair was the best leader the Tory party never had? :-)) and I do agree.

**problem with ID cards is that this government is neither open, transparent nor competant to run such a massive national scheme anyway. The track record of sussessive governments on large scale IT projects is frankly abysmal Frank Spencer could probably do a better job of it :-))

was abit off topic.

Ivan

cyteck:

**In this same theme, did you hear what the Information commissioner said today about the government wanting to create yet another national database which would record ALL our telephone conversations & internet sites vistied. He was very very concerned and that it was a step to far.

With BT's 21CN network, all telephone calls will be transferred over to net based infrastructure instead of what they are using now, so it probably wont be that long before they start to spy into every single phonecall, especially since its going over the net and would be uber easy to listen into millions of calls at the same time compared to a few thousand or whatever they can do now, I know the governments Echelon project can supposedly listen into "2" million calls and other stuff in 1-2 hours ( I have heard thats what its capable of, but I really dont know ), but I suspect that number will rise sharply when all calls are routed over the internet once 21CN is working properly....

I guess we will just have to wait and see and then start fighting for our privacy rights once they have been totally taken away from us, typical UK, we sit and do nothing til its too late.

I already think everyone above the age of 16 already has an ID card, its called a national insurance card, so if all adults have them already, why the need for any more ?

UK annoys me now, the country is falling to pieces and we just sit here and take the c-rap that they throw at us, time for migration me thinks :)

Tony bLIAR certainly done a number on us, but saying that, the tories wouldnt be any better, they too would probably still have us in the same position we are in today.

Where's Lord Sutch's Monster Raving Loony Party when we need them ? :)

Hi Evil-Scotsman,

EXACTLY SO !! you've taken the words out of my mouth. 

Ivan

Net firms in music pirates deal

Six of the UK's biggest net providers have agreed a plan with the music industry to tackle piracy online.

Zen not in the list, I wonder if they were asked.

 

cyteck:

**By the way the US governement already has this listening spying system called Eshalon which is reported to listen to ALL global telephone calls & email etc traffic. I'm not sure how true or extensive this really is. But Eshalon does exist though.

**My biggest concern is ID cards frankly.

Ivan.

 

I think you might mean Echelon, which is run by the NSA at Menwith Hill. http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/ECHELON/echelon.html

 

Regarding privacy, I think our current government don't like anything we do being private from them. They want us to have biometric ID cards, they want our cars tracked by satellite 'for road charging', they monitor EVERY financial transaction you make (try depositing a large amount of cash in your bank account and then check out the sheaf of forms you have to fill out for McStalin stating where the money came from, how long you've had it etc.)

 

Anyhow, thats all a little off topic.

 

Thanks Gary for clearing up Zen's position on this, it means you'll be keeping me as a customer for a while yet!  :-)

Hi Andyrew,

YEP! I totally agree with everything your saying, I already find it quite scary just how much data is being collected on each of us, & I am VERY concerned about government control i.e. big brother Orwellian-ism.

**Back to the main topic**

 Although the Music industry & x6 major ISP including BT it was announced today are going to write letters to individual end users who are perceived as making illegal downloads. That still begs the question of No.1 What exactly constitutes an illegal download over a legal download? as file sharing software can be used legitimately as well as illegitimately, how can you prove it was illegal from the ISP's point of view. No.2 How will these x6 ISP police such traffic & users?

**Presumably it will require snooping or spying on the habits of some users who appear doggy?

**Wont this require the examination of the packets contents to work out if the download is legal or illegal, or will this be done purely by IP address alone?

Ivan.

Why should musicians get money anyway? If they want money they should get a JOB!

Movies, applications, games etc cost lots to make and therefore should be paid for though, imo.

What is really bothering me about this control of downloads is the extra grip they have on what people like me buy. I do not download pirate music or video but do buy a lot of music from itunes and also lots of audio books from audible.co.uk.

If I buy a book in a shop I can lend it to a friend.

If I buy a CD I can lend it to a friend

Both the iTunes music and the audio books are still under the control of the sellers although I have paid for them as I did the CD or paper book so as this sort of medium takes over as it will from the older way of buying stuff we will all finnish up owning nothing.

My wife buys lots of books from outlets that sell them at very low prices (over printing, bancrupt stock etc)  but once books go electronic the price will be controled (price fixed in fact)

The music, movie and publishing industries have become so powerful now that they control governments. Money talks!

 

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Ken

Zen Active 8000

Middle age is when your classmates are so grey, bald and wrinkled that they don't recognize you.
-Bennet Cerf

> What is really bothering me about this control of downloads

Spot on.

The solution is simple, though: don't buy such controled material buy normal CD/DVD/Books.

I nvever have and never will buy anything that I can't then pass on (either sell or give) to others when I'm done with it.

Hi pwhyles,

YES!! BUT I think your slightly missing the point that was being made here. If the music publishing industry can control everyones access to music tracks, albums, music colections,etc. If big business controls ALL music publishing & if ALL music goes digital and eventually ends up being sourced via the internet it will be the end of such "normal" books.

Then the only thing you will be able to buy will be digital downloads which I have a strong feeling the music industry would like everyone to go. Not only could they control whats available but the price too and it would cost the music industry very little presumably to set up a few servers to enable that i.e. it would cost business peanuts in overheads whilst making good profits (capitalistic dream concept).

**ALL commercial creative artist material like CD's, DVDs, & Books are ALREADY controlled. You try buying something that isn't thats the point isn't it??

**You can still share or swap a CD, DVD, book, etc with friends now and I cannot see that changing in the future. Just because its in a digital format. After all digital formats allow for perfect copies to be made of copyrighted or otherwise material.

**Its ALL about control and making money as far as I can see it.

Ivan.