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Linux & MS And file formats?

Last post 18-12-2006, 11:00 AM by murrine. 10 replies.
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  •  17-12-2006, 9:13 AM 23198

    Linux & MS And file formats?

    Hi,

    I wonder if someone who uses Linux can help answer a question I have,

    QTN:- If someone moves over to using Linux isnt there a problem with exchanging files with the vast majority of Microsoft users. Doesnt Linux using a very different filing system and wouldnt that be a problem? Especially if all your previous data was made in MS Windows and NTFS? How might a new Linux user deal with that? Just out of curiosity! its the one thing that puts me off making a final move away from MS.

    Ivan

  •  17-12-2006, 10:12 AM 23200 in reply to 23198

    Re: Linux & MS And file formats?

    Easiest way would be to copy the files to something like a USB drive formatted in FAT/FAT32. This will remove any NTFS things such as ACL. OO will cope with the majority of MS Office files quite happily.

    Martyn
  •  17-12-2006, 11:29 AM 23202 in reply to 23200

    Re: Linux & MS And file formats?

    Hello,

    Sorry! but I think you've missed the point I was making, ALL my data & files are already on NTFS drives. How inter-changable or exchangable are files made with MS products with a Linux OS and Linux filing system. YES! my data is already on a USB drive but its NTFS and I cannot change that?

    Ivan

  •  17-12-2006, 4:00 PM 23224 in reply to 23202

    Re: Linux & MS And file formats?

    If you're asking about *HDD file systems* like (NTFS, Reiserfs & Ext3) it doesn't matter what they are. As has been said, you can open a MSOffice doc in linux with OOo, & even save it in MS .doc format to be read by MSOffice. If OTOH you are asking can you write from a linux partition to an NTFS drive, NO. Can you write from a Windows partition to a linux partition, NO, because you can't see the linux partition from windows (or you couldn't when I used windoze, 10 years ago). However, as has already been said, if you have a separate partition formatted FAT32, *that* can be seen & written to by *both* Windows NTFS & Linux. You could also use a formatted FAT32 external plug-in USB HDD drive too..

    Windows free for 11 years! :)
    Mandriva 2008.1 64-bit
    Mandriva One 2008.1 32-bit
    FreeBSD 7.0
  •  17-12-2006, 5:55 PM 23236 in reply to 23198

    Re: Linux & MS And file formats?

    cyteck:

    Hi,

    I wonder if someone who uses Linux can help answer a question I have,

    QTN:- If someone moves over to using Linux isnt there a problem with exchanging files with the vast majority of Microsoft users. Doesnt Linux using a very different filing system and wouldnt that be a problem? Especially if all your previous data was made in MS Windows and NTFS? How might a new Linux user deal with that? Just out of curiosity! its the one thing that puts me off making a final move away from MS.

    Ivan

    I think there's a bit of clarification needed here, so I'm quoting Ivan's original post to make it clear that I'm responding to that!

    There are two issues: file format (e.g. Word, Excel etc.) and file system (e.g. MS Fat32/VFAT/NTFS, Linux ext2/3, reiser, etc.).

    To take the second first: Any file can be stored on either an MS or a Linux filesystem.After all, it's just a load of bytes, and that's what filesystemsdo. But, of course, whether that's useful depends on whether you have the software to handle a particular file format (which is the other issue).

    The real issue is whether either OS can accessa filesystem of the other type. Windows can not (as far as I know) access any of the Linux types of filesystem. However, Linux can read and write many types of filesystem,  including DOS and Windows 95/98/2000 (which are all MSDOS/VFAT/FAT32). Indeed, I have both Linux and Win98 installed on spearate partitions on a laptop (it came with Win98 and I decided to leave it on, so made a separate partition for Linux); I hardly ever boot into Windows on this machine, so there's a lot of empty space (1.5GB) on the Windows partition. I use this a temporary storage for files which are too big for what'sleft (80-100MB) of my heavily used Linux filespace -- e.g. a CD-full of photos, movies, audio tracks etc. when I want to burn a CD. I just store them on the Windows filesystem from Linux, and on the surface you wouldn't even notice that it wasa Windows filesystem. When they're done with, I delete them.

    However, NTFS which is required for Windows XP. is readable but not (until, possibly, recently) writeable by Linux. Have a look at

        http://www.linux-ntfs.org/

    for standard Linux NTFS capabilities and news on the latest beta which is claimed to be able to write new files to an NTFS system (i.e. to access NTFS freely for reading at writing).

    The above remarks apply to situations where Linux and Windows filesystems are installed on the same machine. There is also the question of transferring filesbetween Windows and Linux machines.

    One aspect is the file size. For files totalling less than 1.44MB, you can put them on a floppy and that works without problems in either direction. For larger files, on the "volatile" storage front there is the USB stick. I think most USB sticks have a VFAT partition on them, and so are both readable and writeable by both Windows and Linux (at least that's the case with the USB sticks I use). So, again, no problem in either direction. I should think (though I don't know directly) that WinXP should be capable of reading from and writing to a VFAT filesystem. If you should have a USB stick with NTFSon it, both Linux (certainly) and Windows (probaboy) should be capable of reformatting it to VFAT. So again this would work in either direcftion. Then, for much larger files, you can write them to CD in ISO9660 formaton either Linux or Windows, and again use the CD to transfer files. Finally, if youhave a Windowsmachine and a Linux machine on the same network, you can transfer files painlessly in either direction using FTP.

    For the first issue (can you handle MS file formats on Linux?): as has been said in other replies, there is software available for Linux (Open Office and others) which can read and generate MS-type files (Word, Excel, etc.), and store these on the Linux filesystem (or, as in my case above, on a Windows partition if you prefer). However, the general capability of Linux software to handle Windows file formats tends to be limited to the "Office" type formats such as Word, Excel, Access, Powerpoint. Other applications which are designed to run on Windows may have their own file formats for which there is no available Linux software.

    Or you can install an emulator on Linux which can provide an environment in which MS executables can run. For example WINE. Or (as I do) install Virtual Machine software such as VMWare: this, when started up, emulatesPC hardware in software (providing a low-level interface in the background to your real hardware). You then set up a "virtual hard drive" (which is really just a big file in your Linux system) and install Windows onto that. You then start up VMware, and then "boot" into Windows -- all on Linux! Then any Windows software which you install in your virtual machine will run as if on Windows, and duly read and write its own native file formats--but into the "virtual hard drive".

    The difficulty of making use of binary file formats which require Windows software has been a pain in the Rs for Linux users for a long time. It is of course easing as noted above, but remains a major problem. However, the incompatibility is not all in one direction. Linux users will be aware that a prime file format for printed text produced on Linux is PostScript (PS), which can be readily converted into PDF on Linux for general consumption. Just as well--PS support in Windows is practically non-existent (mainly confined to printer drivers for PS printers). Just try sending a PS file to an average Windows user: they'll probably end up opening it in Word, which will ruin it for ever! (One very strong reason for converting it to PDF before sending it to a Windows user--though they won't be able to edit it without paying for the non-free components of Adobe Acrobat which are capable of creating and editing PDF files: it's only Acrobat Reader which is free).

    Hoping this helps!

  •  17-12-2006, 5:59 PM 23237 in reply to 23224

    Re: Linux & MS And file formats?

    Hello murrine,

    I thought it might turn out to be just like this, and although a wee bit technical it all does make sense to me now. So thank you for helping to clarify these things for me. Yes! it does kind of all make sense now.

    Whats your opinion of Kubantu?? do you like it? and would it take alot of learning for a newbie linux person?

    Ivan

     

  •  17-12-2006, 6:10 PM 23239 in reply to 23236

    Re: Linux & MS And file formats?

    Hello eelman

    WOW!! thank you for such a fantastic & very comprehensive reply (beyond the call really but thank you so much, very much appreciated though).

    I'm currently looking into Ubantu & Kubantu.

    Ivan

  •  17-12-2006, 6:37 PM 23241 in reply to 23239

    Re: Linux & MS And file formats?

    cyteck:
    Hello eelman

    WOW!! thank you for such a fantastic & very comprehensive reply (beyond the call really but thank you so much, very much appreciated though).

    Thanks for the appreciation. Appreciated in turn! I dunno about "beyond the call", though--I've been facing this issue for the last nearly 15 years, with a lot of both scars, and notches on my gunstock, to show for it, and I'm keen to share info which may be useful to Linux users.

    cyteck:
    I'm currently looking into Ubantu & Kubantu.

    Ivan

    I'm also thinking [K]ubuntufor next time I upgrade/make a new installation. I'm hearing good things on the grapevine, and for one thing, from my trials with the Live CD, they do look like a smooth way in for new Linux users (old battle-scarred campaigners may prefer Slackware, say, since that is more like the early days when you installed Linux with a screwdriver and two spanners; but that's probably a tough chew for newcomers--unless they come with previous Unix experience, which indeed was generally the case in the old days).

    Good luck!

  •  17-12-2006, 11:53 PM 23254 in reply to 23237

    Re: Linux & MS And file formats?

    I try various distros on my machines, some easy, some advanced. I'm sometimes asked to install Linux on friend's & family's machines (replacing Windows), &  IMHO the easiest for newcomers to Linux is Kubuntu.

    There's a FAQ here: http://www.kubuntu.org/faq.php
    A guide to the desktop here.....
    https://help.ubuntu.com/6.10/kubuntu/desktopguide/C/index.html
    ....& how to install it, here: http://linuxhelp.blogspot.com/2006/06/six-steps-to-installing-ubuntu-dapper.html 

    There's a list of usual linux applications here:
    http://www.linux.ie/newusers/alternatives.php
    A list of windows applications & Linux equivalents:
    http://www.novell.com/coolsolutions/feature/11684.html

    You can get a Live-CD first, & see how you like it. A Live-CD won't install anything on your drives. You download an ISO image & burn it to a CD or DVD. If you're not sure how to burn an ISO to a disk, see here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BurningIsoHowto

    I hope this is of some help!  Big Smile

    Windows free for 11 years! :)
    Mandriva 2008.1 64-bit
    Mandriva One 2008.1 32-bit
    FreeBSD 7.0
  •  18-12-2006, 8:28 AM 23256 in reply to 23254

    Re: Linux & MS And file formats?

    Hello murrine,

    YES! I do know about Linux a little abit I aquired a copy of Red Hat Linux (version 5.xx?) & a book called using red hat linux. I managed to install it onto a friends machine and play around with it abit but thats a far as it went.

    I stumbled across Ubantu recently which looks nice and managed to download the ISO image, but then had some difficulties with and burning it onto a CD. Anyway, finally managed to make a bootable CD and have had a look at it. Its abit weird for someone like me, as I've used Microsoft & Windows for many many years. Its such a different ball game though.

    Ivan

     

  •  18-12-2006, 11:00 AM 23262 in reply to 23256

    Re: Linux & MS And file formats?

    If I remember rightly RedHat 5.xx was about 1998, (I started using SuSE Linux in 96/97)  so things have moved on since then. I would say that installation of a linux distro is a lot easier now. Big Smile  As for using Ubuntu, you may find it a "bit weird" because you're looking at the GNOME desktop. If you try Kubuntu, you'll see a KDE desktop which is similar to a windows one in appearance, & more configurable than GNOME (in my opinion). Your comment about linux being "a different ball game", I wouldn't have thought that using the KDE desktop is all that different from a windows one on the surface? However 'underneath the bonnet', as it were, it is completely different from the way windows works. Unlike windows, you don't have admin (root) rights for *everything*  & if you wish to install anything, it will first ask you for your password.  There's a page here which tells you about installing software. You can use either a command line in a terminal, or a GUI like Adept.  Don't worry, IMHO it looks more complicated on this page than it really is! https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InstallingSoftware  

    Put simply, it's because the way linux is built, & because a user doesn't have access to installing anything *unless* they give a password, that linux is free from viruses etc.  http://www.securityfocus.com/columnists/188 

    If I may suggest, if you have room in your machine, install a second hard drive? You could install Kubuntu to it, & boot into it whenever you like, at the same time keeping your windows drive. The GRUB bootloader will automatically detect windows, & give you a choice at boot time of which OS to boot. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_GRUB   Another thing too, linux uses different terminology for hard drives. For eg, & assuming you're using IDE drives: the windows C: drive is linux's 'hda'. linux sees all hard drives as "hd", so your first drive is hda, your second hdb, & so on. If you're using SCSI drives, linux sees them as 'sd'.


    Windows free for 11 years! :)
    Mandriva 2008.1 64-bit
    Mandriva One 2008.1 32-bit
    FreeBSD 7.0
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