Zen Internet Support Forum

XP/SP2: Failure of folder windows to refresh after a change 

 In the last few days I have developed this problem exactly as described in http://support.microsoft.com/kb/823291 , on my generally fault-free & stable XP setup. The problem disappears on a Windows restart, but returns after any two or three editing operations in a folder window. An article I found at...
http://blogs.bdnet.co.uk/steve/archive/2008/01/08/Windows-XP-Network-folders-do-not-refresh-automatically-in-Windows.aspx 

...suggests that the problem "occurs most frequently when you are using Microsoft DFS technology." Last week a new Seagate External USB drive installed its own software on its first switch-on, and I think I may have seen "Microsoft DFS" flash past on the screen, so maybe that's where I caught the bug. I've removed the unnecessary Seagate software, but it hasn't fixed the problem. I don't have that drive connected to the PC, normally.

After backing up the Windows registry, I edited it, adding the single new entry suggested by Microsoft in their article, but it's made no difference at all. Any ideas, anyone? Will I get any help out of Microsft Support if I ask?

Hello Alan,

One of the problems with windows XP service pack 2 is that most people who have installed it or have bought a PC with XP SP2 installed dont fully appreciate that this specific service pack is unlike any other service pack.

NOTE: Microsoft themselves have admitted that XP SP2 is whats termed an "operating system refresh", in other words its not your average service pack designed to fix or patch certain problems as in previous service packs. SP2 is much more like a completely new version on XP, in SP2 Microsoft rewrote many core system files with the focus now on tightening up security of the operating system. The windows firewall was improved, the security center was added and wireless discovery features were added for wifi internet connectivity and so forth. In other words SP2 sits halfway between XP SP1 and windows Vista.

**The only other thing I can think of or suggest is that you could try cleaning your XP registry with a reliable tool such as the freeware program I have used safely for some time called REGSEEKER (highly recommended). This will removed the old or ophand registry entries and improve the systems performance. RegSeeker can be found at http://www.snapfiles.com (see the freeware section/tab)> see registry tools.

**You could also uninstall Service Pack2 and then reinstall it ??

**You will only get direct help & support from Microsoft if you have a fully licensed version of Windows XP including the product key and the activation code. i.e. only if you can prove you have a legitimate EUL and copy of XP. If you have that then yes! you should be able to phone them up for direct support on this problem. This is one of those more obscur XP problems I suspect. Thats the problem with wndows its becoming more & more complex and as it becomes more complex then the problems & gliteches also become more weird & obscur too. I know thats cold comfort to you but its a fact sadly.

Kind Regards Ivan

windows veteran

Thanks very much, Ivan, especially for the 'regseeker' recommendation. I'd embarked on looking at registry checkers & cleaners, but most of the free ones just appeared to tell you about hundreds of 'faults' and then demand lots of money to fix them.

I actually got a prompt email reply just now from Microsoft in the US, so presumably they can tell I'm legit. I'd asked for the 'hotfix' for this problem. It's not absolutely clear on their relevant web page exactly how many of (a) SP2, (b) the hotfix, and (c) the registry editing was necessary. Their reply explained that the 'hotfix' was in SP already, so I'd done everything they thought necessary.

I'll give 'regseeker' a whirl and report.

Thanks again,
Alan T

Reg Seeker' s "Registry cleanup" worked very fast and well, and XP restarted like a rocket, but sadly it didn't fix the problem. Bother! But thanks, anyway.

Hello Alan,

HUMM!! I think your wrestling with a tricky one unfortunately. But I did have a look at the Microsoft support page about this problem, now I understand your problem MUCH more precisely. Microsoft say they know about this problem, it is clearly identified with windows explorer also known as the windows shell. i.e. the windows shell IS windows explorer.

Have you tried the specific registry hack (edit) they recommend to fix this issue? **Microsoft also cover themselves in the small print by saying it might not fix it. Don't you just love Microsoft when they do this kind of thing!! i.e. this should fix the problem but there again it might not ?? Great !! :-(( 

**I still think it might be worth un-installing SP2 and then re-installing, especially if the problem only appeared after SP2 was first installed. I'm obviously assuming that you installed SP2 with the un-install option enabled, so you can remove it if need be.

**YES! RegSeeker is definitely one of the better registry cleaning tools I have come across over the years, I find its main value is in clearing out the junk so my system fires on all cylinders as it were.  Being free ware is nice too. YES! sometimes I find Reg seeker will fix problems but it depends on the nature of the problem I guess, it certainly wont fix every issue thats for sure but its often well worth a try though.

Ivan 

Thanks again, Ivan, for taking an interest!

I've done everything MS says, and the registry is now in good shape, and includes the additional entry that's supposed to fix it, but doesn't. The fault behaves as if the buffer for automatic refresh operations can hold only about 4 or 5 entries, and then it's full and refresh doesn't work any more. It's cleared on Windows restart, and will hold another 4 or 5. This is not now 'sometimes' as described in the MS pages; it's reproducible.

The 'refresh' problem appeared suddenly only a few days ago, but I installed SP2 about a year ago, with no problems until now. If I want to try a 'remove & reinstall' of SP2, do you know where I could find it, please? Unsurprisingly, it's not in 'Add & remove programs'. I downloaded the service pack from MS to install it a year ago, and I think I would have naturally taken an option to keep uninstall as a precaution. I'll search the 'Windows' folder for "uninstall.exe", but I'm not hopeful of finding it there. Edit: No 'uninstalls' anywhere under "Windows". Bother! Will "C:\WINDOWS\system32\setup.exe" do it?

I'm a bit worried that if I did reinstall, I might finish up redoing hours' worth of security updates since I got it. When I got my reply from MS, they told me I had SP2, so presumably they'd remotely inspected the state of my machine.

As I said in my first post, I am suspicious of the software that came with my Seagate 'Free Agent' 500GB external USB drive. 

When I first plugged it in it a few days before I noticed the 'refresh' problem, it automatically installed its own backup & recognition software on my PC. As it did so, I'm almost certain I was asked whether I wanted to use 'Microsoft DFS technology', and I can't remember whether I said "yes" or "no". Probably "no". This was the first time I'd heard of it. I think I'm using NTFS, or whatever is standard in XP, but I don't know whether that's relevant. I might try Seagate support, but I'd expect them to keep quiet about it if it was a known problem.

The helpful blog that I gave as the second link in my first post above says my problem occurs "most frequently when you are using Microsoft DFS technology". I therefore uninstalled the USB drive's native software, which was just a nuisance, with a spurious system tray icon, and a backup program that popped up when I connected that drive (normally switched off), but I fear there may be bits left lying around. My system recognises it as a new drive, as normal when I plug it in, as with other USB devices.

Is it likely, do you know, that I had 'Microsoft DFS Technology' before this, on a standard XP/SP2 setup (plus all 'Windows updates')?

Thanks so much for your replies. In spite of much searching & emailing, you're the only authoritative help I've had!

Fond regards!
Alan T

Hello Alan,

OK! I've just read your further comments this morning. No.1 this problem is unlikely I think to be a windows XP service pack 2 problem directly.

No.2 YES! XP  Service Pack 2 comes with an un-installed but you probably cannot see it as its concealed by a hidden share at c:\windows\$xpsp2$\spuninst\spuninst.exe. NO! Leave XP SP2 alone I think its fine and not the source of your problem!!

No.3 However, I do now think the problem is much more likely to be related to a) The MS DFS installed software.

**NOTE: I found a description of what MS DFS is but I still cannot see how or why the Seagate external drive would need or use this software?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributed_File_System_(Microsoft) ( tells you what DFS is).

**Also tried to find out precisely what & how the Seagate Free Agent software works even thats difficult? Have you uninstalled the Free Agent software or is this still installed??

Next Steps:?? Removal of the MS DFS software if possible, also uninstall the Free Agent software??

Ivan 

 

 

Thanks, Ivan.

>>Next Steps:..... also uninstall the Free Agent software??....<<

I probably didn't install DFS anyway, I just might possibly have done. I haven't been able to reproduce being offered the choice. It's just that that's the only time I've ever heard of it, and it's suggested as a co-conspirator on that third-party web page I mentioned earlier. This evidence would be enough to send someone to Guantanamo Bay, but it wouldn't stand up in court.  I removed Free Agent stuff, early on, & now twice, & it made no difference. I thought I'd made a breakthrough, by leaving the USB external drive on all the time, with & without the Free Agent software present. But I think that may well be a red herring, just as the 'DFS connection' might well be, because it was just taking more windows refreshes for the fault to reappear after a reboot, and I think that number is variable. I keep thinking it's gone away, and then it comes back. Attempts at systematically counting the number of requested windows refreshes to appearance of the fault fail through boredom. I think it's a number between 5 and 10, but quite probably variable. I can always make it reappear if I try after a reboot.

I think I'll just have to live with it.

[I've got a notice stuck below the monitor saying "F5 Refresh Window" as a reminder for my wife, who will get very confused when it happens to her. To avoid the danger to her & my work, I'm trying at present to buy her a cheap laptop with XP rather than Vista , but the excellent supplier of my last three computers, (a camera shop www.wrexcam.com (plug, best in the world, IMHO!)), is having trouble sourcing them without Vista, which he's determined to avoid, as he knows well his downmarket, down-to-earth Wrexham customers. He'll get there eventually, and then this fault will just be a nuisance, but not dangerous.]

All the best, but please don't forget me if anything occurs to you!

Alan T

 

Hello Alan,

OK! having just read your last posting, I guess you (we) have to take a pragmatic view of this problem.

**If you can live with it I would & if windows XP doesn't present any other problems leave well alone would be my advise.  Having been a user of windows since I was invented many years back & having used literally every version, I'm solidly of the opinion that if it ain't broke DON'T try fixing it !!.

**My only other opinion would be that if you cannot live with this problem (would probably drive me nuts if it was me!! but there again perhaps I'm a bit of a perfectionist TBH) then I would wipe XP and re-install the entire shooting match. But thats not for everyone and its pretty time consuming too if done methodically and properly. I'd gladly do it for you but Wreham is abit out of my way :-) I normally charge any were between £70 to £200 for a complete rebuild of XP and system tuning & tweaking but what you get back is normally MUCH better than a shop bought system.

**YES! my sincere advise is 100% definitely DON'T buy a laptop with Windows Vista installed. Windows Vista is a dreadful product, & is in my sincere opinion a step backwards for Microsoft & windows. Vista is MASSIVE, it has a huge foot print 2GB just for the system, & 2 GB of memory before you do anything with it but x3 GB ideally, it goobles system resources for lunch & still remains hungry & wanting more, driving it & steering it reminds me of the QE2. It has a very user unfriendly interface in my opinion. Old useful XP features have been either removed, renamed or buried 3 or 4 menu layers down so you have to dig for them. Atleast XP is pretty intuitive to navigate.

Vista has been plaued with compatibility problems both on the hardware front & software front, worst of all has been device driver compatibility even 12months on from its UK retail launch. 

**YES! Keep with windows XP, in my opinion windows XP is probably the best ever version of windows. Why? because it has the right balance between features, functionality, user interface, speed & performance and tunability.

Kind Regards Ivan

PS: Nice part of the world Wrexham bachh!!

Yes, I think I'll just have to live with it, Ivan, unless another, even more brilliant fairy godperson happens by. Your comments on Vista are timely, and I'll pass them on to my pal in Wrexham Cameras, to encourage him that he's right about Vista. The latest I've heard (in 'The Grauniad's' Thursday IT supplement 2 weeks ago) is that its sound handling is rubbish, which concerns me as a keen amateur musician married to a professional with 2 very musical grown-up children.

>>PS: Nice part of the world Wrexham bachh!!<<

I was born in Sheffield, but brought up from age 4 nr. Pontypridd, S.Wales; my parents lived in Caerffili until well into their late 80s. So I regard myself as a naturalised Welshman, and I feel as though I've come home to Wales since I early-retired 9 yrs ago. I've lived just on the English side of the R.Dee border for 25yrs, but now my everyday & cultural life is based in & around Wrexham.

Good luck!
Alan T

Alan if you are still having a problem with this i can tell you how to fix it. shoot me an email cnull @ nullcommsolutions.net

 

I have two machines with XP on and one installed SP3 OK and the other refused to. I have a feeling it is due to a registry cleaner I once used on that PC and the error it gives half way through the update is a registry violation after which it back tracks on the install.

A while back I would have agreed with Ivan's views on Vista but I did buy a machine with it installed and I just can't fault it. Every piece of hardware I have connected to it as worked perfectly whether it be scanner, printer or what ever.

The other day I plugged a bluetooth dongle into it and vista installed it's own driver and it connected to my phone right away with good transfer speed. The sound is as good as XP too.

Vista SP1 as caused me no problem.

 

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Ken

Zen Active 8000

By the time a family pays off the mortgage for a home in the suburbs, the home isn't home,and the suburbs aren't suburbs.

Was the failed machine an OEM system?

 Sorry, re-read your post and this will not be related but I will leave it in case otehrs have the OEM problem.

I don't run a OEM I have XP Pro that is a fresh install of SP2 integrated and SP3 installed over the top of all updates.

Workarounds:

1. Boot into Safe Mode and rename INTELPMM.SYS to INTELPMM.OLD.

2. After booting into Safe Mode:

Start | Run | (copy/paste) sc config intelppm start= disabled | OK | Reboot

into normal (Windows) mode.

Other references include:

• http://aumha.net/viewtopic.php?p=187790#p187790

• http://msinfluentials.com/blogs/jesper/archive/2008/05/08/does-your-amd-based-computer-boot-after-installing-xp-sp3.aspx

• http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/05/09/windows_xp_sp3_reboots_crashes/

• http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9084418

• You receive a “Stop 0x0000007E” error message after you upgrade to Windows

XP Service Pack 2 or Service Pack 3 on a non-Intel-processor-based computer

(Revised 06 May-08)

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/888372

--

~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)

MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002

AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net

DTS-L http://dts-l.net/

kmk wrote:

SOURCE

Seems like it only affects OEM installs as they use the Intel power management driver.

Basically, HP (and others) to save costs produce one hard disk image irrespective of the computer's processor type, and they install the Intel power management driver.

Now, it seems that until SP3 this didn't matter too much and the machine booted OK. However, something's changed in SP3 which means that the Intel power management driver crashes when it's run on an AMD chip (for which there is a separate driver which the OEM should have installed instead).