Zen Internet Support Forum

Wondered if anybody had experienced anything like the problem I currently have?

For the last few weeks I have had crackling on my voice line whilst making calls. Finally got around to faultt finding it a bit, and have established that the noise is only present when my router is synched up to the ADSL. I am on the 8meg MAX service if it makes any difference.

The router is sat right next to the BT master socket, which normally has a filtered faceplate on it. I have tried removing the faceplate and plugging straight into the main BT test socket located behind it to eliminate the household extensions. I have also used several different "normal" filters while doing this, but it still seems the same. Make a call without the router hooked up and the line is crystal clear. Hook up the router, and as soon as it synchs, the crackling starts. Unplug the router and a few seconds later the line goes back to normal. I have also tried different cables etc.

I have also tried a different router with exactly the same results. I had actually hoped this wouldn't be the case, as if it had been the router to blame at least I could have sorted that one out myself.

Any thoughts guys/gals?

Cheers,

reaper

Hello,

Humm!! interesting problem. OK! one of the commonest causes of faults with broadband is due to line noise which can cause loss of sync to the exchange or random dropped connections.

In you case I'd have to say that this problem doesn't look like the more conventional noise faults that you often see. In your case I'd have to say that you've proved that its NOT the phone line itself (so you can exclude that from the trouble shooting process).

Filters, normally its the job of the line splitter or filter to keep the x3 frequencies separate from each other. i.e. voice or sound calls at the lowest frequency, next the uplink in the middle & finally the download which takes the remaining frequencies. If a filter fails to work properly then you often see one frequency stamping all over the other, or over lapping with the same results. But again you've tried different filters with the same results, so its not a filter problem.

Conclusion:- I think thats happening here is that the router itself has become a source of interference or is causing the line noise (crackerling), it could also be a Master BT socket wiring problem. I think you might be in need of an engineer to come and check the Master socket itself?

**Especially as you say the same effects can be replicated using a different router, this itself suggests its the Master socket?

Ivan 

reaper:

Hook up the router, and as soon as it synchs, the crackling starts. Unplug the router and a few seconds later the line goes back to normal. I have also tried different cables etc.

I've had exactly the same issue with my line. When the router was plugged in I had noisy voice calls. Unplug the router and about 5-10 seconds later the noise would stop. I'd had BT round a number of times trying to find the fault. When I finally spotted that the noise continued *after* my router was unplugged I let BT know directly (it's a voice fault after all) and they seemed to take notice that time. An engineer was eventually sent out to the exchange but he could find no fault. He did however spot that the DSL line card had been changed. Since then I have had no problems on my line at all.

I can only suspect that there was a problem in the filtering at the far end causing harmonics down into the voice band and had affected several people hence the change of line card.

Even though it appears to be related to the DSL connection it is a fault with the voice side of BT. Keep pestering them and tell them that the problem is related to the DSL being active, and persists after you've removed all the DSL equipment at your end. Hopefully that will help.

Oh yeah, mine always seemed related to wet weather, which given I live in Lancashire tends to be all the time :-/
 

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Jerry Nicholls
Principal Systems Engineer
perl -e '$_=q(print "perl -e \x27\$_=q($_);eval\x27\n");eval'

Thanks for the replies guys.

 My biggest issue at the moment is knowing whether to try and get the issue addressed by Zen or BT. It's sort of difficult when the voice problem is apparently being caused by the ADSL. I can see me phoning BT and them telling me they aren't interested seeing as the voice part of the line is ok providing I am not using my ADSL.

One other thing that has also happened, that I had a few times about a year ago, is that I have picked up the phone and there has been no dial tone at all, and I have been unable to use the phone to dial out. The line seemingly remains like this until I receive an incoming call, the phone rings as per normal, and everything then goes back to working ok.  When this happened previously though, there was no problem with crackling etc on the line though.

For the time being I have put my findings down in a mail and sent it to Zen support to see what they recommend. Hopefully they may be able to provide some advice on how best to address things.

 Cheers

Reaper

 

 

Hi Reaper,

Have you sent the email to support? and if so what was the email you used?

 If you haven't sent the email yet then please let me know and then send it to support@zen.co.uk For the Attention of Leo.

 

 

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'Even the best of companies sometimes make mistakes. It is how they deal with the mistakes or when things go wrong that differentiates the good from the bad.'

~ Taken from the Thinkbroadband Forums

Hi Leo,

I sent the mail to the address you mentioned, and it was replied to yesterday. They suggested contacting them via phone to get a fault raised with BT, as it sounded like a possible High Resistance fault on the line.

Upon calling support I got through to a helpful fellow called Jonathon. After a bit of of a chat he decided it actually seemed more like it could be the "splitter card" at the exchange end that was at fault. This was what he raised as the potential fault to BT. (@Jerry - sounds pretty much identical to the issue you had!)

A couple of hours later I checked the online Zen fault log, and it said "BT have completed diagnostics and would like you to re-test the connection to determine if the fault has been resolved." Pretty standard response to be honest, and I was asked to retest the line.

The good news is that whatever BT have done, the problem seems to be cured. As to exactly what they have done, I wish I could be more specific. I can only surmise it has indeed been something at the exchange, and possibly even the "splitter card" that support suggested.

Again, thanks to all that have replied.

Reaper.

So glad I found these comments...  EXACTLY the same probs I've been having -- crackling, broadband dropping out, trying to use landline to make outgoing call or getting internal call seems to sort problem.  After what feels like decades on the phone with BT finally got an engineer coming out tomorrow.  Somewhat fearful about potential charges but at this stage any price is worth paying to try and get my life back on an even keel.  Would be interested to hear how things worked out with any others...

I had the same problem when I was using my Draytek 2600 router and I was on Zen but when I disconnected the router or even just disconnected via software the noise went away. I am now on Sky and have no noise at all so it could be the router or as mentioned the line card at the BT exchange. Thing is, I used to sync up at 7.8Mbps with Zen and had no problems so the noise didn't effect the BB connection, just voice calls and people at the other end of the voice call could not hear the noise.

Mark

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Instructions said Windows 2000 or better so I installed Fedora

I have exactly the same problem as above - disconnects during phone conversations, noise on the line (can hear the router/modem reconnecting).  The BRAS profile tanked recently, but it's slowly upping again, but nowhere near what I was getting a few months back. 

I'm a little leery of getting a BT engineer out in case they plug into the line and think it's stable.  I'm even plugged into the master socket and have changed everything in the system (phone, filter, router), but £160 is a lot of money!

 

 

Now this is weird - I am with Zen and have exactly the same problem. Noise on the line, connectons drops in/out when talking on phone.

BT have been round, put on a new face panel with the adsl and voice split at the master plate so I dont need to fit a filter which has improved the stability a bit (2mb connection usually holds for about 24 hours but can drop in/out all over the place some days).

BT have done a 'lift and shift' at the exchange but this didnt work. Would this mean I am also now using a different splitter or not? If the former then perhaps Zen should insist that BT change the splitter to see if this works for me?

As they have run out of ideas BT have recommended a new line, but guess what, I live on a new estate and they dont have any spares (despite the fact that there are loads of new houses not even sold, couldnt I have one of their lines?) so I am stuffed. Apparently BT are in the process of putting in some new lines but cant tell me when (good old BT)! Zen told me to keep an eye out for BT vans in the area and then ask them if they were fitting new lines in my area...

I am VERY fed up and thinking of going to OFCOM as I use the ADSL for my business and its getting a bit silly. Have asked for an ADSL specialist BT engineer to confirm that a new line is the answer but no joy. Keep getting "you need a new line sir and we dont have any so we are not sending anybody out."

Can anybody help?

 

 

 

 

I'm really sorry, but I had exactly the same problems as you: noise on the line, disconnects, poor sync etc.  It got resolved, but only because I was lucky enough to have a second line (unused) coming into the house - so the guy was able to switch the lines at the exchange and I used the second line which was fine.  Sounds like your problem is between the exchange and your house on the line, and BT probably aren't going to run someone down the entire length of the line to find the fault.  Only thing I can suggest is niggling at BT again.

 Oh, and the other piece of advice I've heard - please take with a pinch of salt - is that BT are much more prompt at line fixes and the like if the audio of your phone is compromised or out.  Broadband speed problems may get ignored, but no voice or terrible noise problems may get a different dept. and a faster resolution.  Worth trying, at any rate.

Hi,

If it really is a noise related problem i.e. noisy line which is VERY common issue indeed. Then BT can use some pretty clever tools which can detect (pin point) where along the line length the precise problem is, they don't need to send out an engineer too do that. It can easily be done completely remotely.

**Noise on the line or noise levels are one of the commonest problems with DSL which degrade or can even drop connections.

**ADSL line filters or splitters are designed to keep ALL x3 frequency ranges separate from each other, but can fail too do so and another problem is that voice calls can stamp on data traffic and vica versa. Hence its always worth checking the line splitter by trying another one (borrowed or bought).

**Also worth bearing in mind is that distance from the nearest BT exchange is often talked about in terms of how the crow flies i.e. straight line direct distances. But in reality BT lines can go all around the houses and can pass through numberous jionts & junction points before reaching the exchange itself.

Ivan

I'm experiencing a drop in download speed and this thread has reminded me of some crackles I've had on the phone line not too long ago.  This is a copy of an email sitting in my drafts folder waiting to be sent to support.  I want to run some more speed tests before sending.  Could the crackles and drop in speed be related?

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I think my down speed has dropped.  About three weeks ago, during some bad weather, there were bad crackles on the phone line.  Someone also rang and said they'd had the automated BT voice saying there was a fault on the line.  During this time, the router constantly lost the ADSL.  I rang BT's automated line test number but that said no fault found.  After an hour or so, everything seemed ok, and I thought nothing of it.

I've retrospectively noticed a slowdown and am currently downloading a file from M$ at approx 30-50 kBps.  I think I should be getting approx 200-250kBps on Home 2000 (well I used to).

I'm not getting speeds I used to get from well seeded torrents (Ubuntu
distro) or usenet (news.zen.co.uk) either.  About 100kBps during last
nights tests.  I've also noticed that video sites such as youtube and break.com are constantly buffering now every 5 seconds.

The results are roughly the same using two different PCs.  One wired
straight from a Draytek vigour 2600+ router and a laptop via a
wireless AP (WPA2-PSK, hidden network, don't think anyone is stealing
bandwidth).

I've tried the BT speedtester as suggested in your KB, it only asks for
a telephone number and not any usernames as suggested.  The results I'm getting are

22/07/08 21:35 - download 186 kilo bits per second (kbps)
23/07/08

Upload speed seems unaffected. 

dyf, your problem sounds exactly the same as the one I had. Thanks to Zen, BT did a thorough investigation and discovered 2 faults. One was in a joint up the road and the other was in the line between the house and the box in the pavement outside. They found this by testing my connection by running a cable from the master socket directly to the pavement box. The engineer decided that the only solution was to dig a ditch to run a permanent new wire from the house to the pavement.

I must admit to being impressed. I rang Zen on Monday, the engineer diagnosed the problem on Wednesday, came round on Thursday with paperwork to sign, and contractors dug a new hole for the wire Friday morning. An hour after they finished, the engineer came and installed the cable. There was still a problem so after lunch he got another engineer to help him find the other fault in the box up the road after which it all worked well.

During this time I had about two or three times dial-up speed so not wonderful but at least I wasn't cut off.

So I would recommend ringing Zen. They did a lot of work checking everything and ensuring BT did its bit. I hate to think what would have heppened with an 'ordinary' ISP.  

I thought I would give an update.

 Thanks to my persistance and with Zen's help BT sent out a specialist engineer who, after only 10 minutes, found that the problem lie with a fault on the actual cabling 220 metres from my premises.

 After trying to track down the cable fault without success he located a spare line to the box at the end of my road which he then routed to my premises. Problem solved and line has been rock solid since with no line noise at all (infact its the best its been since moving in over 18 months ago which makes me wonder if there had been a developing fault since day one...).

 What has really annoyed me it the fact that the previous general engineers told me that there were no spare lines available yet the engineer who fixed the problem told me that there had ALWAYS been a spare line there!

 Still, all fixed now and I can get on with some work!