Zen Internet Support Forum

Hi all,

We have been with Zen for over a year now with no problems.

I play a lot of online games and a low ping is essential for me. Thats why i moved to Zen from Eclipse.

I would usually see a ping of 35 to 40ms when doing a speed test on the speedtest,net website, using the Maidenhead server.

Now I see pings in excess of 56ms. 

Now, usually when playing Counter Strike Source, I will be getting pings of around 50 to 60ms. But yesterday evening I am getting pings over 100ms on servers where I would usually see around 50 to 60ms.

I have done serveral tests with all of my PC's, via wirless and ethernet.All systems are experiencing these higher latencies.

I have not changed any settings on any of my hardware.

Is there some work going on that maybe causing this sudden ping increase? All was well yesterday afternoon. 

Here is a copy and paste of a tracert done from me to speedtester.bt.com

 Tracing route to speedtester.bt.com [217.32.105.42]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    33 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  10.0.0.1
  2    41 ms    49 ms    42 ms  gadamer-dsl.zen.net.uk [62.3.83.3]
  3    43 ms    43 ms    41 ms  bolzano-ge-0-0-1-1.wh.zen.net.uk [62.3.80.225]
  4    43 ms    43 ms    65 ms  erazmus-ae1-0.wh.zen.net.uk [62.3.80.49]
  5    49 ms    49 ms    48 ms  leibniz-so-0-1-0-0.te.zen.net.uk [62.3.80.45]
  6    55 ms    50 ms    49 ms  lorenz-xe-2-0-0-0.te.zen.net.uk [62.3.80.41]
  7    55 ms    49 ms    48 ms  linx2.ukcore.bt.net [195.66.226.10]
  8    50 ms    50 ms    49 ms  core1-pos9-0-0.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net [194.74.65.117]
  9    50 ms    51 ms    51 ms  core2-pos9-0.stalbans.ukcore.bt.net [194.74.16.222]
 10    52 ms    50 ms    52 ms  vhsaccess2-gig1-0.stalbans.fixed.bt.net [217.32.169.148]

 As you can see, these are not very good at all.

 I have rebooted my router several times to see if its any of the Zen gateways that are causing the problems, but the results are the same.

Any ideas?

I really do hope this is just a temporary issue.

Thanks

DoZZa

Same here, started last night and I've changed nothing that might trigger it. I generally get ~20ms but as you can see it's now more than twice that (sometimes thrice).

Tracing route to speedtester.bt.com [217.32.105.42]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1 763 ms 2 ms 2 ms 192.168.0.1
  2 41 ms 25 ms 19 ms gauss-dsl.zen.net.uk [62.3.82.18]
  3 46 ms 44 ms * spinoza-ae0-160.hq.zen.net.uk [62.3.80.161]
  4 37 ms 39 ms 34 ms lotze-ae1-0.hq.zen.net.uk [62.3.80.66]
  5 45 ms 43 ms 36 ms nietzsche-ae2-0.ls.zen.net.uk [62.3.80.70]
  6 46 ms 49 ms 41 ms nozick-ae1-0.ls.zen.net.uk [62.3.80.74]
  7 45 ms 44 ms 68 ms lorenz-so-0-1-0-0.te.zen.net.uk [62.3.80.78]
  8 41 ms 47 ms 60 ms linx2.ukcore.bt.net [195.66.226.10]
  9 54 ms 52 ms 47 ms core2-pos0-1-5-0.ilford.ukcore.bt.net [62.6.201.121]
 10 52 ms 42 ms 51 ms core2-pos9-0.stalbans.ukcore.bt.net [194.74.16.222]
 11 50 ms 49 ms 54 ms vhsaccess2-gig1-0.stalbans.fixed.bt.net [217.32.169.148]

Ignore the 763ms in the first line, that's just the time it took me to allow the cmd on my firewall. :)

Any feedback would be much appreciated, thanks.
 

At least its not just me with the problem then, ive been through all I can here and everything is in order.

Mine seems to be back to normal now dozza, hope yours is too.

I spoke to support and they said some work was done on some of the routers this morning which might've been the cause.

raf:

Mine seems to be back to normal now dozza, hope yours is too.

I spoke to support and they said some work was done on some of the routers this morning which might've been the cause.

Mine still has issues, getting pings around 55 to 60ms, where it used to be around 35ms.

Strange, I will call support if its no better in a couple of days.

Glad your is ok mate 

Cheers :)

I have issues as well, and the answer i had from zen, today was very unsatisfactory..

We play online gaming FPS for the last nine years, and been with zen for six of those. So far the service in the last six years have been really good and reliable, with only mishaps on the local exchange with equipment failure.
But not only do we play we also run multiple gaming servers in NL.

 this is the kind of ping trace we get atm,

2,gandhi-dsl1.wh.zen.net.uk,62.3.83.5,16,18,16,17,17,16,17,16,17,17,17,17,17,16,17,17
3,erazmus-ge-0-0-1-3.wh.zen.net.uk,62.3.80.197,17,17,17,25,17,17,17,17,17,17,17,17,17,16,17,17
4,bolzano-ae1-0.wh.zen.net.uk,62.3.80.50,17,17,17,17,16,17,19,17,17,16,17,16,18,18,16,17
5,spinoza-ae2-0.hq.zen.net.uk,62.3.80.54,17,17,18,17,18,18,18,17,17,17,16,17,17,17,17,18
6,lotze-ae1-0.hq.zen.net.uk,62.3.80.66,17,18,17,17,16,17,17,17,17,28,17,17,18,18,17,17
7,zermelo-so-0-0-0-0.sp.zen.net.uk,62.3.80.82,19,20,19,19,19,19,23,19,19,19,19,21,19,20,20,21
8,zubiri-so-0-0-0-0.ny.zen.net.uk,62.3.8086,101,100,101,100,100,101,100,101,101,101,100,100,101,110,100,100
9,ny-iix.above.net,198.32.160.22,101,103,101,101,100,102,101,100,126,101,100,101,101,101,105,101
10,so-0-3-0.mpr1.lga5.us.above.net,64.125.30.17,101,103,100,102,101,101,101,101,101,108,101,101,101,144,101,101
11,so-1-0-0.mpr1.ams1.nl.above.net,64.125.27.186,112,112,112,112,112,112,112,111,112,111,112,117,111,111,112,112
12,k330.leaseweb.ams1.nl.above.net,82.98.254.62,113,113,113,112,126,113,116,113,112,114,113,116,115,113,113,114
13,spawned-by.www.projectfrag.com,85.17.188.79,112,113,113,112,112,113,112,112,113,112,113,113,112,113,113,112

 Our ping is usually between 40-50ms overall, but we are getting a massive jump between 2 hops,

7,zermelo-so-0-0-0-0.sp.zen.net.uk,62.3.80.82,>>>19 ms !
8,zubiri-so-0-0-0-0.ny.zen.net.uk,62.3.80.86,>>>>101 ms !

The poor response i received was very unhelpful :-

These ping times should not cause any problems as they are only fraction of seconds, I cannot do anything regarding this issue as it does not fit into any kind of problem we can raise.
Our server are sometimes busy and will not respond to ping straight away.
You try playing with you MTU as this may help.

This has become unplayable for us. If this does not get resolved then we will have no choice but to look else where.

 

 

 

Nefertem:

I have issues as well, and the answer i had from zen, today was very unsatisfactory..

We play online gaming FPS for the last nine years, and been with zen for six of those. So far the service in the last six years have been really good and reliable, with only mishaps on the local exchange with equipment failure.
But not only do we play we also run multiple gaming servers in NL.

 this is the kind of ping trace we get atm,

2,gandhi-dsl1.wh.zen.net.uk,62.3.83.5,16,18,16,17,17,16,17,16,17,17,17,17,17,16,17,17
3,erazmus-ge-0-0-1-3.wh.zen.net.uk,62.3.80.197,17,17,17,25,17,17,17,17,17,17,17,17,17,16,17,17
4,bolzano-ae1-0.wh.zen.net.uk,62.3.80.50,17,17,17,17,16,17,19,17,17,16,17,16,18,18,16,17
5,spinoza-ae2-0.hq.zen.net.uk,62.3.80.54,17,17,18,17,18,18,18,17,17,17,16,17,17,17,17,18
6,lotze-ae1-0.hq.zen.net.uk,62.3.80.66,17,18,17,17,16,17,17,17,17,28,17,17,18,18,17,17
7,zermelo-so-0-0-0-0.sp.zen.net.uk,62.3.80.82,19,20,19,19,19,19,23,19,19,19,19,21,19,20,20,21
8,zubiri-so-0-0-0-0.ny.zen.net.uk,62.3.8086,101,100,101,100,100,101,100,101,101,101,100,100,101,110,100,100
9,ny-iix.above.net,198.32.160.22,101,103,101,101,100,102,101,100,126,101,100,101,101,101,105,101
10,so-0-3-0.mpr1.lga5.us.above.net,64.125.30.17,101,103,100,102,101,101,101,101,101,108,101,101,101,144,101,101
11,so-1-0-0.mpr1.ams1.nl.above.net,64.125.27.186,112,112,112,112,112,112,112,111,112,111,112,117,111,111,112,112
12,k330.leaseweb.ams1.nl.above.net,82.98.254.62,113,113,113,112,126,113,116,113,112,114,113,116,115,113,113,114
13,spawned-by.www.projectfrag.com,85.17.188.79,112,113,113,112,112,113,112,112,113,112,113,113,112,113,113,112

 Our ping is usually between 40-50ms overall, but we are getting a massive jump between 2 hops,

7,zermelo-so-0-0-0-0.sp.zen.net.uk,62.3.80.82,>>>19 ms !
8,zubiri-so-0-0-0-0.ny.zen.net.uk,62.3.80.86,>>>>101 ms !

The poor response i received was very unhelpful :-

These ping times should not cause any problems as they are only fraction of seconds, I cannot do anything regarding this issue as it does not fit into any kind of problem we can raise.
Our server are sometimes busy and will not respond to ping straight away.
You try playing with you MTU as this may help.

This has become unplayable for us. If this does not get resolved then we will have no choice but to look else where.

 

 

 

 LOL, play with you MTU, this will make no difference to latency, might speed up downloads but thats it.

I do hope this issue is resolved within the next couple of days. Ive been with Zen for over a year and this is the first problem I have had, all be it a serious problem, especially as I play a lot of online games.

And yes, when it comes to FPS, a fraction of a second makes all the difference.

I think the point of that reply is that ICMP latency does not necessarily equate to TCP/UDP latency, as the former may be deprioritised if a router's load increases.

Provide evidence that a number of game servers on different networks show unusual application-level latency and I'm sure it will be escalated.

I've been struggling with XBox Live games for the last few days - I am definitely suffering with some sort of latency.

Nefertem:

 Our ping is usually between 40-50ms overall, but we are getting a massive jump between 2 hops,

7,zermelo-so-0-0-0-0.sp.zen.net.uk,62.3.80.82,>>>19 ms !
8,zubiri-so-0-0-0-0.ny.zen.net.uk,62.3.80.86,>>>>101 ms !

Those two routers are on opposite sides of the Atlantic - 'sp' for Southport and 'ny' for New York. 80ms round-trip time over the Atlantic is about right :

• Speed of light in a vacuum = 3x10^8 m/s
• Speed of light in a fibre  = 2x10^8 m/s
• Straight line distance between SP and NY = 5,400000m
• Time to get from SP to NY in a fibre = 27ms
• RTT SP<->NY<->SP = 54ms

Taking into account that the fibres don't run in a great circle between the two points, eg the fibre has to go around Ireland etc, a RTT of 80ms would seem correct.

By the looks of that traceroute it's going all the way to the US and back again, which would look to be a routing issue. Unfortunately the vast majority of routing issues are beyond our control as that's down to the other ISPs and what routes they announce to where. If above.net have annouced that the best route to that server is via NY-IIX, then that's the route the traffic from us will go via. 

 

---

--
Jerry Nicholls
Principal Systems Engineer
perl -e '$_=q(print "perl -e \x27\$_=q($_);eval\x27\n");eval'

Well, I have ruled out any issues with my hardware.

 I have tried a different router and the results are the same.

I have changed the dsl filters to see if they where causing the problem.

The problem does not lay my end.

Zen, please sort it or im off to another ISP.

I only really use the internet for gaming really, and if any of the Zen staff play online games then they would realise that a low ping is essential.

I really find it hard to beleive that one of the support staff said that a fraction of a second makes no difference, they obviously dont play FPS online, a fraction of a second makes all the difference.

Like I said, I only really use the net for gaming, and at £34.99 a month, thats expensive, especially as the latecny has now gone too high for most games to be playable.

Please sort it out, I will be calling support first thing Monday morning to see if we can resovle the issue. If not then I will have to find another ISP.

Its a shame, I really liked Zen before this issue, i have recommended Zen to many people, most of which have signed up with you.

Needless to say, if this issue continues then I will not be recommending you, for game play anyway, your download speeds are spot on,no complaints there, but for me its the ping that really matters.

Hope this is sorted ASAP.

Don't game myself but you can look at these to see if you think it is a Zen issue

 

Tracing route to bbc.co.uk [212.58.224.131]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1     1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.0.1
  2    25 ms    24 ms    26 ms  gauthier-dsl1.hq.zen.net.uk [62.3.82.17]
  3    26 ms    26 ms    24 ms  lotze-ge-0-0-1-136.hq.zen.net.uk [62.3.80.137]
  4    26 ms    25 ms    26 ms  nietzsche-ae2-0.ls.zen.net.uk [62.3.80.70]
  5    29 ms    26 ms    26 ms  nozick-ae1-0.ls.zen.net.uk [62.3.80.74]
  6    32 ms    32 ms    32 ms  lorenz-so-0-1-0-0.te.zen.net.uk [62.3.80.78]
  7    32 ms    32 ms    32 ms  82.71.254.134
  8    32 ms    32 ms    32 ms  212.58.238.153
  9    32 ms    33 ms    32 ms  rdirwww-vip.thdo.bbc.co.uk [212.58.224.131]

Trace complete.

C:\Users\Campbell>ping bbc.co.uk

Pinging bbc.co.uk [212.58.224.131] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 212.58.224.131: bytes=32 time=31ms TTL=119
Reply from 212.58.224.131: bytes=32 time=31ms TTL=119
Reply from 212.58.224.131: bytes=32 time=31ms TTL=119
Reply from 212.58.224.131: bytes=32 time=31ms TTL=119

Ping statistics for 212.58.224.131:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 31ms, Maximum = 31ms, Average = 31ms

tobykim:

Don't game myself but you can look at these to see if you think it is a Zen issue

 

Tracing route to bbc.co.uk [212.58.224.131]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1     1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.0.1
  2    25 ms    24 ms    26 ms  gauthier-dsl1.hq.zen.net.uk [62.3.82.17]
  3    26 ms    26 ms    24 ms  lotze-ge-0-0-1-136.hq.zen.net.uk [62.3.80.137]
  4    26 ms    25 ms    26 ms  nietzsche-ae2-0.ls.zen.net.uk [62.3.80.70]
  5    29 ms    26 ms    26 ms  nozick-ae1-0.ls.zen.net.uk [62.3.80.74]
  6    32 ms    32 ms    32 ms  lorenz-so-0-1-0-0.te.zen.net.uk [62.3.80.78]
  7    32 ms    32 ms    32 ms  82.71.254.134
  8    32 ms    32 ms    32 ms  212.58.238.153
  9    32 ms    33 ms    32 ms  rdirwww-vip.thdo.bbc.co.uk [212.58.224.131]

Trace complete.

C:\Users\Campbell>ping bbc.co.uk

Pinging bbc.co.uk [212.58.224.131] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 212.58.224.131: bytes=32 time=31ms TTL=119
Reply from 212.58.224.131: bytes=32 time=31ms TTL=119
Reply from 212.58.224.131: bytes=32 time=31ms TTL=119
Reply from 212.58.224.131: bytes=32 time=31ms TTL=119

Ping statistics for 212.58.224.131:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 31ms, Maximum = 31ms, Average = 31ms

 

There is nothing wrong with those pings mate.

No I didn't think so that's why I posted them, just so you could compare to see if it was an issue with Zen or some other culprit, recently I made a foray into o2 Access to give it a try, wow what a mistake, now I know the o2 Access package is IPstream based the same as Zen and my pings went up to over 300ms after six at night I quickly got out of there as it was virtually unusable in the evenings for anything. I did have a problem with Zen a couple of days ago when my speed dropped and pings went up but it cleared in a couple of hours so I don't know what that was about

Not sure whats causing the issue my end. All I know is that i have done all I can here, ive tried different routers, different computers, different adsl filters, even installed XP on one of my machines to see if it was a vista issue. All to no avail.

It was all fine until Thursday night, was playing CSS and all of a sudden my ping goes up to over 100ms on a server I play all the time, and my usuall ping is around 50 to 60ms on that particular server. Now its around 80 to 100ms.

To say its beginning to do my head in is an understatement, im getting owned on all the servers I play.

I have had BT check the line for faults, none found.

Its got to be a change in the routing, I dont know, but i really want it sorted ASAP.

Will call support first think tomorrow.

Cheers